EBU Statement on abuse and harassment of ESC 2024 Artists
The EBU has previously explained the reasoning for the inclusion of KAN and the differences between them as an independent broadcaster and previous participants who were excluded. Constructive debate is a positive consequence of such decisions.
It's that part which I can't respect. As far as I am aware, no they have not?
All they have said is that it is a "competition between broadcasters not governments", that is not a reasonable explanation or justification for the reason to keep KAN in the contest despite KAN themselves being in breach of countless regulations of the same nature which got Russia banned.
No competitor (including the Israeli entry) deserves harassment but the EBU condemning behaviour from the public when they have bought this upon themselves is really quite shocking.
I think (?) they explained their decision to allow Israel to compete at around the time all the participating countries were announced if I'm not mistaken. I honestly can't remember how thorough an explanation it was on the other hand.
I am aware of what you're referring to where they said it is "a competition between broadcasters not governments" but that fails to address any of the accusations/evidence that KAN are severely in breach of EBU's own broadcasting standards.
Something that those supportive of Israel's inclusion always seem to ignore. I also don't see much concern from them that both the broadcaster and songwriters have confirmed that the song is political, and should "tell the Israeli narrative" and be "reflective of the situation, in a subtle way" despite being called "October Rain" originally. Not to mention the broadcaster airing interviews with IDF soldiers referring to Palestinians as "animals" and "baboons", or airing a choir of children calling for the "annihilation" of Gaza.
But hey, I guess it's just easier to dismiss people concerned with a contest they're fans of being used to give a platform for artwashing through ad-hominem attacks such as "trolls" and "watermelon loonies" than address the arguments or concerns.
The "shhh you're ruining it for me" energy is rife.
You've (correctly) brought this point up a few times with zero response from the select few Israel defenders on this thread. I'd be interested to see some of them respond to this, and try to legitimately argue how Israel's inclusion, and the behaviour of their broadcaster, doesn't bring the contest into disrepute.
Additionally, one of these said defenders said that he has "no desire to support any artist bringing politics into it", yet KAN have quite openly stated that their song is political, with Eden Golan quite happy to be the face of said political song. All very strange 🤔
You seem to be referring to me with these back handed digs.
Regardless of whatever people think, regardless of any words the EBU uses, there are clear differences in Russia and Israel.
Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine was another competing country recognised by all other countries. Other countries then called out Russia’s participation hence the line about “bringing the contest into disrepute”. Other countries could’ve and would’ve withdrew. There really was no objection against Russia’s removal. Russia probably knew it was coming and withdrew from the EBU the day after.
Israel started their campaign against Palestine for different reasons. Palestine is not a competing country. Palestine is not a state recognised by many participants and is recognised as a terrorist state by many. Despite a few misgivings from some delegations, there was no serious call or threat from any broadcasters. Therefore Israel’s participation did not threaten this year’s contest in the same way. In fact, their removal would have likely caused more issues and I’m sure KAN would have fought the decision with lawsuits.
I do not know what KAN have supposedly done that breaches the EBU rules. I’m sure if they actually broke the rules, they would have been withdrawn. I’m sure there are many countries that are not squeaky clean. If we really did say Israel needs to be removed for a news broadcast that are anti Palestinian, then we would surely have to remove all other countries with similar events. Can say goodbye to a great handful I imagine. Serbia? Azerbaijan? Armenia? Cyprus? Balkan countries? Ex soviet countries?
Anyway. We really are still debating a decision that has been made and agreed upon by all competing countries.
It's an interesting point that Russia were perhaps removed because other countries would have refused to participate, but I think people forget that there are actually a dozen or so EBU members and Eurovision eligible countries that have refused to take part for decades due to Israel's participation.
EBU Statement on abuse and harassment of ESC 2024 Artists
The EBU has previously explained the reasoning for the inclusion of KAN and the differences between them as an independent broadcaster and previous participants who were excluded. Constructive debate is a positive consequence of such decisions.
It's that part which I can't respect. As far as I am aware, no they have not?
All they have said is that it is a "competition between broadcasters not governments", that is not a reasonable explanation or justification for the reason to keep KAN in the contest despite KAN themselves being in breach of countless regulations of the same nature which got Russia banned.
No competitor (including the Israeli entry) deserves harassment but the EBU condemning behaviour from the public when they have bought this upon themselves is really quite shocking.
I think (?) they explained their decision to allow Israel to compete at around the time all the participating countries were announced if I'm not mistaken. I honestly can't remember how thorough an explanation it was on the other hand.
I am aware of what you're referring to where they said it is "a competition between broadcasters not governments" but that fails to address any of the accusations/evidence that KAN are severely in breach of EBU's own broadcasting standards.
Something that those supportive of Israel's inclusion always seem to ignore. I also don't see much concern from them that both the broadcaster and songwriters have confirmed that the song is political, and should "tell the Israeli narrative" and be "reflective of the situation, in a subtle way" despite being called "October Rain" originally. Not to mention the broadcaster airing interviews with IDF soldiers referring to Palestinians as "animals" and "baboons", or airing a choir of children calling for the "annihilation" of Gaza.
But hey, I guess it's just easier to dismiss people concerned with a contest they're fans of being used to give a platform for artwashing through ad-hominem attacks such as "trolls" and "watermelon loonies" than address the arguments or concerns.
The "shhh you're ruining it for me" energy is rife.
You've (correctly) brought this point up a few times with zero response from the select few Israel defenders on this thread. I'd be interested to see some of them respond to this, and try to legitimately argue how Israel's inclusion, and the behaviour of their broadcaster, doesn't bring the contest into disrepute.
Additionally, one of these said defenders said that he has "no desire to support any artist bringing politics into it", yet KAN have quite openly stated that their song is political, with Eden Golan quite happy to be the face of said political song. All very strange 🤔
You seem to be referring to me with these back handed digs.
Regardless of whatever people think, regardless of any words the EBU uses, there are clear differences in Russia and Israel.
Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine was another competing country recognised by all other countries. Other countries then called out Russia’s participation hence the line about “bringing the contest into disrepute”. Other countries could’ve and would’ve withdrew. There really was no objection against Russia’s removal. Russia probably knew it was coming and withdrew from the EBU the day after.
Israel started their campaign against Palestine for different reasons. Palestine is not a competing country. Palestine is not a state recognised by many participants and is recognised as a terrorist state by many. Despite a few misgivings from some delegations, there was no serious call or threat from any broadcasters. Therefore Israel’s participation did not threaten this year’s contest in the same way. In fact, their removal would have likely caused more issues and I’m sure KAN would have fought the decision with lawsuits.
I do not know what KAN have supposedly done that breaches the EBU rules. I’m sure if they actually broke the rules, they would have been withdrawn. I’m sure there are many countries that are not squeaky clean. If we really did say Israel needs to be removed for a news broadcast that are anti Palestinian, then we would surely have to remove all other countries with similar events. Can say goodbye to a great handful I imagine. Serbia? Azerbaijan? Armenia? Cyprus? Balkan countries? Ex soviet countries?
Anyway. We really are still debating a decision that has been made and agreed upon by all competing countries.
Any thoughts on the broadcaster and songwriters admitting that 'Hurricane' is in fact political? Or the Israeli president getting involved in the song selection?
I guess not, if I recall correctly you didn't see anything politicial about the original title 'October Rain' - which is quite laughable, to be frank.
I could list KAN's horrid reporting again if you like. I fail to see how they'd meet the standards of impartiality and respect. Interviews calling Palestinians "baboons"? Children singing about the "annihilation" of Gaza? Presenters signing bombs designed to kill, maim and displace said children? A news editor calling a dozen or so Eurovision artists "pro-Hamas"?
No different to Croatia last year. Ukraine 2016, Armenia 2015,.. many songs of the past. I don’t see an issue with Israel’s song. The political message was more about October 7th and the horrible events that happened to Israel as opposed to what has happened since.
And again, KANs supposed horrid reporting is no different to many other countries reporting of their political enemies.
This might seem like an odd question - but I'll ask anyway.
For countries that used to compete but aren't this year - will they be able to vote in the "rest of the world" category?
Yes
107 countries voted last year in the rotw votes.
The most online votes were cast from viewers in the United States, Canada, Kosovo, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Mexico, Hungary, Slovakia, UAE, Turkey, and Chile.
Sad that Hungary, turkey and Slovakia don’t seem to be anywhere near competing again.
Will be interesting to analyse these again to see if countries like Albania do oddly well again. With the ROTW vote just be another diaspora issue?
I'm assuming the ROTW only get to vote in one of the semi's - do we know which one - with so many potential Eastern Bloc countries voting in a single semi - could prove to be a bonus to any "neighbours" in that semi.
No both semis and the final.
So technically, none competing countries and countries not even in the EBU get to vote more often!
I don’t live in Europe, so if I wanted to (I don’t vote) I could vote in both semis and the final too!
I actually cannot believe I'm saying this, but I don't understand the problems around what William has said. I think his comments are more than fair lol.
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
I actually cannot believe I'm saying this, but I don't understand the problems around what William has said. I think his comments are more than fair lol.
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
I really don't think his comments are too bad - and to be honest, what he says is 100% truthful. This is the 2nd event in a row where the BBC have tried to stop the footage being released officially. At the end of the day, if you aren't confident in your artist's live performances, then don't let them participate in these pre-show events (or, even better, don't select them to begin with). And to be honest, sometimes people don't perform well and you just have to own it - there are MUCH worse pre-party performances out there. I mean Elhaida Dani literally missed the big note in I'm Alive (SO UNDERRATED, BY THE WAY) and still allowed it to be published. And this year, Mustii's London performance is pretty dire. Again, allows it to be published.
EBU Statement on abuse and harassment of ESC 2024 Artists
The EBU has previously explained the reasoning for the inclusion of KAN and the differences between them as an independent broadcaster and previous participants who were excluded. Constructive debate is a positive consequence of such decisions.
It's that part which I can't respect. As far as I am aware, no they have not?
All they have said is that it is a "competition between broadcasters not governments", that is not a reasonable explanation or justification for the reason to keep KAN in the contest despite KAN themselves being in breach of countless regulations of the same nature which got Russia banned.
No competitor (including the Israeli entry) deserves harassment but the EBU condemning behaviour from the public when they have bought this upon themselves is really quite shocking.
I think (?) they explained their decision to allow Israel to compete at around the time all the participating countries were announced if I'm not mistaken. I honestly can't remember how thorough an explanation it was on the other hand.
I am aware of what you're referring to where they said it is "a competition between broadcasters not governments" but that fails to address any of the accusations/evidence that KAN are severely in breach of EBU's own broadcasting standards.
Something that those supportive of Israel's inclusion always seem to ignore. I also don't see much concern from them that both the broadcaster and songwriters have confirmed that the song is political, and should "tell the Israeli narrative" and be "reflective of the situation, in a subtle way" despite being called "October Rain" originally. Not to mention the broadcaster airing interviews with IDF soldiers referring to Palestinians as "animals" and "baboons", or airing a choir of children calling for the "annihilation" of Gaza.
But hey, I guess it's just easier to dismiss people concerned with a contest they're fans of being used to give a platform for artwashing through ad-hominem attacks such as "trolls" and "watermelon loonies" than address the arguments or concerns.
The "shhh you're ruining it for me" energy is rife.
You've (correctly) brought this point up a few times with zero response from the select few Israel defenders on this thread. I'd be interested to see some of them respond to this, and try to legitimately argue how Israel's inclusion, and the behaviour of their broadcaster, doesn't bring the contest into disrepute.
Additionally, one of these said defenders said that he has "no desire to support any artist bringing politics into it", yet KAN have quite openly stated that their song is political, with Eden Golan quite happy to be the face of said political song. All very strange 🤔
You seem to be referring to me with these back handed digs.
Regardless of whatever people think, regardless of any words the EBU uses, there are clear differences in Russia and Israel.
Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine was another competing country recognised by all other countries. Other countries then called out Russia’s participation hence the line about “bringing the contest into disrepute”. Other countries could’ve and would’ve withdrew. There really was no objection against Russia’s removal. Russia probably knew it was coming and withdrew from the EBU the day after.
Israel started their campaign against Palestine for different reasons. Palestine is not a competing country. Palestine is not a state recognised by many participants and is recognised as a terrorist state by many. Despite a few misgivings from some delegations, there was no serious call or threat from any broadcasters. Therefore Israel’s participation did not threaten this year’s contest in the same way. In fact, their removal would have likely caused more issues and I’m sure KAN would have fought the decision with lawsuits.
I do not know what KAN have supposedly done that breaches the EBU rules. I’m sure if they actually broke the rules, they would have been withdrawn. I’m sure there are many countries that are not squeaky clean. If we really did say Israel needs to be removed for a news broadcast that are anti Palestinian, then we would surely have to remove all other countries with similar events. Can say goodbye to a great handful I imagine. Serbia? Azerbaijan? Armenia? Cyprus? Balkan countries? Ex soviet countries?
Anyway. We really are still debating a decision that has been made and agreed upon by all competing countries.
It's an interesting point that Russia were perhaps removed because other countries would have refused to participate, but I think people forget that there are actually a dozen or so EBU members and Eurovision eligible countries that have refused to take part for decades due to Israel's participation.
Ah, you mean countries that follow the Arab League Boycott? I don't know why, but I get the feeling that the Eurovision eligible countries you speak about, Algeria (where same-sex activity is illegal), Jordan, Libya (where you can be sent to prison for being gay and where in some areas there is evidence of LGBT people being executed), Egypt (where homosexuality is illegal under their 'morality' laws), Tunisia (where being gay is illegal and they are currently trying to make communications with Israelis illegal (lol)), are probably better off not in the contest - and I imagine that Israel would probably be the least of their worries given the LGBT+ history of the contest.
I probably wouldn't use this argument to support your argument removing Israel - "Remove Israel so countries that criminalise, and in some cases murder, gay people can join!" probably isn't a good look.
Just popping another plug for the 'DS Eurovision Jury 2024' here. Would really love some more participants for this year. So if you are interested in taking part just check the link below and drop me a private message. All the best
I actually cannot believe I'm saying this, but I don't understand the problems around what William has said. I think his comments are more than fair lol.
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
I really don't think his comments are too bad - and to be honest, what he says is 100% truthful. This is the 2nd event in a row where the BBC have tried to stop the footage being released officially. At the end of the day, if you aren't confident in your artist's live performances, then don't let them participate in these pre-show events (or, even better, don't select them to begin with). And to be honest, sometimes people don't perform well and you just have to own it - there are MUCH worse pre-party performances out there. I mean Elhaida Dani literally missed the big note in I'm Alive (SO UNDERRATED, BY THE WAY) and still allowed it to be published. And this year, Mustii's London performance is pretty dire. Again, allows it to be published.
I don't think that the BBC blocked any of Mae's pre-party performances last year from being released though? So it's not like they just block any performance that isn't up to scratch.
I actually cannot believe I'm saying this, but I don't understand the problems around what William has said. I think his comments are more than fair lol.
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
I really don't think his comments are too bad - and to be honest, what he says is 100% truthful. This is the 2nd event in a row where the BBC have tried to stop the footage being released officially. At the end of the day, if you aren't confident in your artist's live performances, then don't let them participate in these pre-show events (or, even better, don't select them to begin with). And to be honest, sometimes people don't perform well and you just have to own it - there are MUCH worse pre-party performances out there. I mean Elhaida Dani literally missed the big note in I'm Alive (SO UNDERRATED, BY THE WAY) and still allowed it to be published. And this year, Mustii's London performance is pretty dire. Again, allows it to be published.
I don't think that the BBC blocked any of Mae's pre-party performances last year from being released though? So it's not like they just block any performance that isn't up to scratch.
Sure, but I also don't believe it's purely down to his mental health - in that case pull him from the parties citing "illness". Previously announced acts have missed events before due to illness. Letting him perform and then telling sites afterwards? And to be honest, I can understand why this would annoy Wiwibloggs - they're media partners for the event and help sign acts up, sure. So they dedicate their time for the pay off of the performances being recorded, etc?
Like I said, I'm usually the first to criticise Wiwibloggs (genuinely cannot stand them!) but I genuinely don't think that what was said is that bad at all, really.
I actually cannot believe I'm saying this, but I don't understand the problems around what William has said. I think his comments are more than fair lol.
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
I really don't think his comments are too bad - and to be honest, what he says is 100% truthful. This is the 2nd event in a row where the BBC have tried to stop the footage being released officially. At the end of the day, if you aren't confident in your artist's live performances, then don't let them participate in these pre-show events (or, even better, don't select them to begin with). And to be honest, sometimes people don't perform well and you just have to own it - there are MUCH worse pre-party performances out there. I mean Elhaida Dani literally missed the big note in I'm Alive (SO UNDERRATED, BY THE WAY) and still allowed it to be published. And this year, Mustii's London performance is pretty dire. Again, allows it to be published.
I don't think that the BBC blocked any of Mae's pre-party performances last year from being released though? So it's not like they just block any performance that isn't up to scratch.
Sure, but I also don't believe it's purely down to his mental health - in that case pull him from the parties citing "illness". Previously announced acts have missed events before due to illness. Letting him perform and then telling sites afterwards? And to be honest, I can understand why this would annoy Wiwibloggs - they're media partners for the event and help sign acts up, sure. So they dedicate their time for the pay off of the performances being recorded, etc?
Like I said, I'm usually the first to criticise Wiwibloggs (genuinely cannot stand them!) but I genuinely don't think that what was said is that bad at all, really.
We will most likely never know for certain what the actual reason was, personally I'm not inclined to delve too deeply into speculation, especially as there has been plenty of that already. I just hope that he is OK and is being looked after at this time.
I actually cannot believe I'm saying this, but I don't understand the problems around what William has said. I think his comments are more than fair lol.
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
I really don't think his comments are too bad - and to be honest, what he says is 100% truthful. This is the 2nd event in a row where the BBC have tried to stop the footage being released officially. At the end of the day, if you aren't confident in your artist's live performances, then don't let them participate in these pre-show events (or, even better, don't select them to begin with). And to be honest, sometimes people don't perform well and you just have to own it - there are MUCH worse pre-party performances out there. I mean Elhaida Dani literally missed the big note in I'm Alive (SO UNDERRATED, BY THE WAY) and still allowed it to be published. And this year, Mustii's London performance is pretty dire. Again, allows it to be published.
I don't think that the BBC blocked any of Mae's pre-party performances last year from being released though? So it's not like they just block any performance that isn't up to scratch.
Sure, but I also don't believe it's purely down to his mental health - in that case pull him from the parties citing "illness". Previously announced acts have missed events before due to illness. Letting him perform and then telling sites afterwards? And to be honest, I can understand why this would annoy Wiwibloggs - they're media partners for the event and help sign acts up, sure. So they dedicate their time for the pay off of the performances being recorded, etc?
Like I said, I'm usually the first to criticise Wiwibloggs (genuinely cannot stand them!) but I genuinely don't think that what was said is that bad at all, really.
We will most likely never know for certain what the actual reason was, personally I'm not inclined to delve too deeply into speculation, especially as there has been plenty of that already. I just hope that he is OK and is being looked after at this time.
I feel a bit out of the loop here, what's happened? I know Olly performed at one of the pre parties and apparently came across a bit subdued. I know he's getting some flack from people demanding he withdraw also.
I actually cannot believe I'm saying this, but I don't understand the problems around what William has said. I think his comments are more than fair lol.
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
I really don't think his comments are too bad - and to be honest, what he says is 100% truthful. This is the 2nd event in a row where the BBC have tried to stop the footage being released officially. At the end of the day, if you aren't confident in your artist's live performances, then don't let them participate in these pre-show events (or, even better, don't select them to begin with). And to be honest, sometimes people don't perform well and you just have to own it - there are MUCH worse pre-party performances out there. I mean Elhaida Dani literally missed the big note in I'm Alive (SO UNDERRATED, BY THE WAY) and still allowed it to be published. And this year, Mustii's London performance is pretty dire. Again, allows it to be published.
I don't think that the BBC blocked any of Mae's pre-party performances last year from being released though? So it's not like they just block any performance that isn't up to scratch.
Sure, but I also don't believe it's purely down to his mental health - in that case pull him from the parties citing "illness". Previously announced acts have missed events before due to illness. Letting him perform and then telling sites afterwards? And to be honest, I can understand why this would annoy Wiwibloggs - they're media partners for the event and help sign acts up, sure. So they dedicate their time for the pay off of the performances being recorded, etc?
Like I said, I'm usually the first to criticise Wiwibloggs (genuinely cannot stand them!) but I genuinely don't think that what was said is that bad at all, really.
We will most likely never know for certain what the actual reason was, personally I'm not inclined to delve too deeply into speculation, especially as there has been plenty of that already. I just hope that he is OK and is being looked after at this time.
I feel a bit out of the loop here, what's happened? I know Olly performed at one of the pre parties and apparently came across a bit subdued. I know he's getting some flack from people demanding he withdraw also.
I can only go by what has been reported on here and from the scraps that I've read elsewhere - the official video of Olly's LEP performance on Wiwibloggs You tube channel was not released, but there have been some fan videos which show him giving a subdued and disengaged performance of 'Dizzy' and he was apparently the same when performing his other song ('King', I think).
A lot of people have speculated that because of protesters at the venue putting pressure on him to withdraw, as well as the event being delayed by 90 minutes because of 'technical issues' (he didn't take to the stage until the early hours of the morning) that this had a detrimental effect on his mental health which affected his performance. His openness about his previous mental health difficulties has also been taken into account.
William from WiwiBloggs has appeared in a video where I think he was criticising the delegation for asking for the footage not to be released, implying that it was just a bad performance that they were embarassed by. I haven't seen the video in full so I could be mistaken on that point though.
If I've got any of those details wrong then I apologise, but that's the situation as I understand it.
Do these delegations not realise that by asking for videos not to published, they are just creating more of a drama and making people want to seek it out even more?!
I actually cannot believe I'm saying this, but I don't understand the problems around what William has said. I think his comments are more than fair lol.
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
I really don't think his comments are too bad - and to be honest, what he says is 100% truthful. This is the 2nd event in a row where the BBC have tried to stop the footage being released officially. At the end of the day, if you aren't confident in your artist's live performances, then don't let them participate in these pre-show events (or, even better, don't select them to begin with). And to be honest, sometimes people don't perform well and you just have to own it - there are MUCH worse pre-party performances out there. I mean Elhaida Dani literally missed the big note in I'm Alive (SO UNDERRATED, BY THE WAY) and still allowed it to be published. And this year, Mustii's London performance is pretty dire. Again, allows it to be published.
I don't think that the BBC blocked any of Mae's pre-party performances last year from being released though? So it's not like they just block any performance that isn't up to scratch.
Sure, but I also don't believe it's purely down to his mental health - in that case pull him from the parties citing "illness". Previously announced acts have missed events before due to illness. Letting him perform and then telling sites afterwards? And to be honest, I can understand why this would annoy Wiwibloggs - they're media partners for the event and help sign acts up, sure. So they dedicate their time for the pay off of the performances being recorded, etc?
Like I said, I'm usually the first to criticise Wiwibloggs (genuinely cannot stand them!) but I genuinely don't think that what was said is that bad at all, really.
We will most likely never know for certain what the actual reason was, personally I'm not inclined to delve too deeply into speculation, especially as there has been plenty of that already. I just hope that he is OK and is being looked after at this time.
I feel a bit out of the loop here, what's happened? I know Olly performed at one of the pre parties and apparently came across a bit subdued. I know he's getting some flack from people demanding he withdraw also.
I can only go by what has been reported on here and from the scraps that I've read elsewhere - the official video of Olly's LEP performance on Wiwibloggs You tube channel was not released, but there have been some fan videos which show him giving a subdued and disengaged performance of 'Dizzy' and he was apparently the same when performing his other song ('King', I think).
A lot of people have speculated that because of protesters at the venue putting pressure on him to withdraw, as well as the event being delayed by 90 minutes because of 'technical issues' (he didn't take to the stage until the early hours of the morning) that this had a detrimental effect on his mental health which affected his performance. His openness about his previous mental health difficulties has also been taken into account.
William from WiwiBloggs has appeared in a video where I think he was criticising the BBC for asking for the footage not to be released, implying that it was just a bad performance that they were embarassed by. I haven't seen the video in full so I could be mistaken on that point though.
If I've got any of those details wrong then I apologise, but that's the situation as I understand it.
Thanks. Much as I think Israel should have no place in Eurovision this year I totally disagree with people trying to put pressure on individual artists. Someone else made the point on here earlier, but it's bizarrely the ones who've actually spoken out about the situation who are being out under the most pressure. It's also apparent from social media that a lot of those declaring they're going to boycott are the exact same people who'd never actually watch anyway.
I actually cannot believe I'm saying this, but I don't understand the problems around what William has said. I think his comments are more than fair lol.
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
I really don't think his comments are too bad - and to be honest, what he says is 100% truthful. This is the 2nd event in a row where the BBC have tried to stop the footage being released officially. At the end of the day, if you aren't confident in your artist's live performances, then don't let them participate in these pre-show events (or, even better, don't select them to begin with). And to be honest, sometimes people don't perform well and you just have to own it - there are MUCH worse pre-party performances out there. I mean Elhaida Dani literally missed the big note in I'm Alive (SO UNDERRATED, BY THE WAY) and still allowed it to be published. And this year, Mustii's London performance is pretty dire. Again, allows it to be published.
I don't think that the BBC blocked any of Mae's pre-party performances last year from being released though? So it's not like they just block any performance that isn't up to scratch.
Sure, but I also don't believe it's purely down to his mental health - in that case pull him from the parties citing "illness". Previously announced acts have missed events before due to illness. Letting him perform and then telling sites afterwards? And to be honest, I can understand why this would annoy Wiwibloggs - they're media partners for the event and help sign acts up, sure. So they dedicate their time for the pay off of the performances being recorded, etc?
Like I said, I'm usually the first to criticise Wiwibloggs (genuinely cannot stand them!) but I genuinely don't think that what was said is that bad at all, really.
We will most likely never know for certain what the actual reason was, personally I'm not inclined to delve too deeply into speculation, especially as there has been plenty of that already. I just hope that he is OK and is being looked after at this time.
I feel a bit out of the loop here, what's happened? I know Olly performed at one of the pre parties and apparently came across a bit subdued. I know he's getting some flack from people demanding he withdraw also.
I can only go by what has been reported on here and from the scraps that I've read elsewhere - the official video of Olly's LEP performance on Wiwibloggs You tube channel was not released, but there have been some fan videos which show him giving a subdued and disengaged performance of 'Dizzy' and he was apparently the same when performing his other song ('King', I think).
A lot of people have speculated that because of protesters at the venue putting pressure on him to withdraw, as well as the event being delayed by 90 minutes because of 'technical issues' (he didn't take to the stage until the early hours of the morning) that this had a detrimental effect on his mental health which affected his performance. His openness about his previous mental health difficulties has also been taken into account.
William from WiwiBloggs has appeared in a video where I think he was criticising the BBC for asking for the footage not to be released, implying that it was just a bad performance that they were embarassed by. I haven't seen the video in full so I could be mistaken on that point though.
If I've got any of those details wrong then I apologise, but that's the situation as I understand it.
Thanks. Much as I think Israel should have no place in Eurovision this year I totally disagree with people trying to put pressure on individual artists. Someone else made the point on here earlier, but it's bizarrely the ones who've actually spoken out about the situation who are being out under the most pressure. It's also apparent from social media that a lot of those declaring they're going to boycott are the exact same people who'd never actually watch anyway.
Bib - that's not really surprising though - by publicly expressing an opinion on the situation they opened themselves up to public discourse on the matter in whatever shape or form it comes in. Of course it was gonna lead to more pressure being put on them to take more impactfull action, it was naive of them if they did not realise it at the time they issued the statement.
Its a bit of a mess that has sadly blown up in their faces.
Do these delegations not realise that by asking for videos not to published, they are just creating more of a drama and making people want to seek it out even more?!
I don’t know — it’s highly possible this was a request from Olly himself, and if he’s in (or was in) a bad place mentally it’s not that easy to have the foresight needed to predict reactions etc.
I can understand the desire to try and suppress a bad performance to protect an individual from further trolling or negative attention, although as you say, realistically it doesn’t really work that way.
Do these delegations not realise that by asking for videos not to published, they are just creating more of a drama and making people want to seek it out even more?!
I don’t know — it’s highly possible this was a request from Olly himself, and if he’s in (or was in) a bad place mentally it’s not that easy to have the foresight needed to predict reactions etc.
I can understand the desire to try and suppress a bad performance to protect an individual from further trolling or negative attention, although as you say, realistically it doesn’t really work that way.
But there was nothing wrong with his Madrid performance, and yet that too has been vetoed.
Do these delegations not realise that by asking for videos not to published, they are just creating more of a drama and making people want to seek it out even more?!
I really don’t think they do.
I think the rapid evolution of social media and social interactions is causing many mistakes. Things that used to be easily brushed off are no longer so.
Some people in charge, thinking that by not putting the videos out there, means there is no video to comment on, hate on, or abuse, are very naive.
It’s like Kate’s team thought that putting the photoshopped picture of her and the kids would shut everyone up, forgetting how deeply people delve into social media!
I sometimes feel like we're living in a 'Black Mirror' episode
EBU Statement on abuse and harassment of ESC 2024 Artists
The EBU has previously explained the reasoning for the inclusion of KAN and the differences between them as an independent broadcaster and previous participants who were excluded. Constructive debate is a positive consequence of such decisions.
It's that part which I can't respect. As far as I am aware, no they have not?
All they have said is that it is a "competition between broadcasters not governments", that is not a reasonable explanation or justification for the reason to keep KAN in the contest despite KAN themselves being in breach of countless regulations of the same nature which got Russia banned.
No competitor (including the Israeli entry) deserves harassment but the EBU condemning behaviour from the public when they have bought this upon themselves is really quite shocking.
I think (?) they explained their decision to allow Israel to compete at around the time all the participating countries were announced if I'm not mistaken. I honestly can't remember how thorough an explanation it was on the other hand.
I am aware of what you're referring to where they said it is "a competition between broadcasters not governments" but that fails to address any of the accusations/evidence that KAN are severely in breach of EBU's own broadcasting standards.
Something that those supportive of Israel's inclusion always seem to ignore. I also don't see much concern from them that both the broadcaster and songwriters have confirmed that the song is political, and should "tell the Israeli narrative" and be "reflective of the situation, in a subtle way" despite being called "October Rain" originally. Not to mention the broadcaster airing interviews with IDF soldiers referring to Palestinians as "animals" and "baboons", or airing a choir of children calling for the "annihilation" of Gaza.
But hey, I guess it's just easier to dismiss people concerned with a contest they're fans of being used to give a platform for artwashing through ad-hominem attacks such as "trolls" and "watermelon loonies" than address the arguments or concerns.
The "shhh you're ruining it for me" energy is rife.
You've (correctly) brought this point up a few times with zero response from the select few Israel defenders on this thread. I'd be interested to see some of them respond to this, and try to legitimately argue how Israel's inclusion, and the behaviour of their broadcaster, doesn't bring the contest into disrepute.
Additionally, one of these said defenders said that he has "no desire to support any artist bringing politics into it", yet KAN have quite openly stated that their song is political, with Eden Golan quite happy to be the face of said political song. All very strange 🤔
You seem to be referring to me with these back handed digs.
Regardless of whatever people think, regardless of any words the EBU uses, there are clear differences in Russia and Israel.
Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine was another competing country recognised by all other countries. Other countries then called out Russia’s participation hence the line about “bringing the contest into disrepute”. Other countries could’ve and would’ve withdrew. There really was no objection against Russia’s removal. Russia probably knew it was coming and withdrew from the EBU the day after.
Israel started their campaign against Palestine for different reasons. Palestine is not a competing country. Palestine is not a state recognised by many participants and is recognised as a terrorist state by many. Despite a few misgivings from some delegations, there was no serious call or threat from any broadcasters. Therefore Israel’s participation did not threaten this year’s contest in the same way. In fact, their removal would have likely caused more issues and I’m sure KAN would have fought the decision with lawsuits.
I do not know what KAN have supposedly done that breaches the EBU rules. I’m sure if they actually broke the rules, they would have been withdrawn. I’m sure there are many countries that are not squeaky clean. If we really did say Israel needs to be removed for a news broadcast that are anti Palestinian, then we would surely have to remove all other countries with similar events. Can say goodbye to a great handful I imagine. Serbia? Azerbaijan? Armenia? Cyprus? Balkan countries? Ex soviet countries?
Anyway. We really are still debating a decision that has been made and agreed upon by all competing countries.
It's an interesting point that Russia were perhaps removed because other countries would have refused to participate, but I think people forget that there are actually a dozen or so EBU members and Eurovision eligible countries that have refused to take part for decades due to Israel's participation.
Ah, you mean countries that follow the Arab League Boycott? I don't know why, but I get the feeling that the Eurovision eligible countries you speak about, Algeria (where same-sex activity is illegal), Jordan, Libya (where you can be sent to prison for being gay and where in some areas there is evidence of LGBT people being executed), Egypt (where homosexuality is illegal under their 'morality' laws), Tunisia (where being gay is illegal and they are currently trying to make communications with Israelis illegal (lol)), are probably better off not in the contest - and I imagine that Israel would probably be the least of their worries given the LGBT+ history of the contest.
I probably wouldn't use this argument to support your argument removing Israel - "Remove Israel so countries that criminalise, and in some cases murder, gay people can join!" probably isn't a good look.
Personally, I think as long as they're willing to show the entire contest beginning to end without censoring anything than they should be aloud to join. Exposing LGBT artists and culture to these countries would be a step in the right direction and excluding them for that reason would do nothing for progress. It could obviously get complicated if such a country were to win and host but cross that bridge if and when they come to it.
Besides, homosexuality is on paper legal or at least decriminalised in EBU countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon & Turkey as well.
EBU Statement on abuse and harassment of ESC 2024 Artists
The EBU has previously explained the reasoning for the inclusion of KAN and the differences between them as an independent broadcaster and previous participants who were excluded. Constructive debate is a positive consequence of such decisions.
It's that part which I can't respect. As far as I am aware, no they have not?
All they have said is that it is a "competition between broadcasters not governments", that is not a reasonable explanation or justification for the reason to keep KAN in the contest despite KAN themselves being in breach of countless regulations of the same nature which got Russia banned.
No competitor (including the Israeli entry) deserves harassment but the EBU condemning behaviour from the public when they have bought this upon themselves is really quite shocking.
I think (?) they explained their decision to allow Israel to compete at around the time all the participating countries were announced if I'm not mistaken. I honestly can't remember how thorough an explanation it was on the other hand.
I am aware of what you're referring to where they said it is "a competition between broadcasters not governments" but that fails to address any of the accusations/evidence that KAN are severely in breach of EBU's own broadcasting standards.
Something that those supportive of Israel's inclusion always seem to ignore. I also don't see much concern from them that both the broadcaster and songwriters have confirmed that the song is political, and should "tell the Israeli narrative" and be "reflective of the situation, in a subtle way" despite being called "October Rain" originally. Not to mention the broadcaster airing interviews with IDF soldiers referring to Palestinians as "animals" and "baboons", or airing a choir of children calling for the "annihilation" of Gaza.
But hey, I guess it's just easier to dismiss people concerned with a contest they're fans of being used to give a platform for artwashing through ad-hominem attacks such as "trolls" and "watermelon loonies" than address the arguments or concerns.
The "shhh you're ruining it for me" energy is rife.
You've (correctly) brought this point up a few times with zero response from the select few Israel defenders on this thread. I'd be interested to see some of them respond to this, and try to legitimately argue how Israel's inclusion, and the behaviour of their broadcaster, doesn't bring the contest into disrepute.
Additionally, one of these said defenders said that he has "no desire to support any artist bringing politics into it", yet KAN have quite openly stated that their song is political, with Eden Golan quite happy to be the face of said political song. All very strange 🤔
You seem to be referring to me with these back handed digs.
Regardless of whatever people think, regardless of any words the EBU uses, there are clear differences in Russia and Israel.
Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine was another competing country recognised by all other countries. Other countries then called out Russia’s participation hence the line about “bringing the contest into disrepute”. Other countries could’ve and would’ve withdrew. There really was no objection against Russia’s removal. Russia probably knew it was coming and withdrew from the EBU the day after.
Israel started their campaign against Palestine for different reasons. Palestine is not a competing country. Palestine is not a state recognised by many participants and is recognised as a terrorist state by many. Despite a few misgivings from some delegations, there was no serious call or threat from any broadcasters. Therefore Israel’s participation did not threaten this year’s contest in the same way. In fact, their removal would have likely caused more issues and I’m sure KAN would have fought the decision with lawsuits.
I do not know what KAN have supposedly done that breaches the EBU rules. I’m sure if they actually broke the rules, they would have been withdrawn. I’m sure there are many countries that are not squeaky clean. If we really did say Israel needs to be removed for a news broadcast that are anti Palestinian, then we would surely have to remove all other countries with similar events. Can say goodbye to a great handful I imagine. Serbia? Azerbaijan? Armenia? Cyprus? Balkan countries? Ex soviet countries?
Anyway. We really are still debating a decision that has been made and agreed upon by all competing countries.
It's an interesting point that Russia were perhaps removed because other countries would have refused to participate, but I think people forget that there are actually a dozen or so EBU members and Eurovision eligible countries that have refused to take part for decades due to Israel's participation.
Ah, you mean countries that follow the Arab League Boycott? I don't know why, but I get the feeling that the Eurovision eligible countries you speak about, Algeria (where same-sex activity is illegal), Jordan, Libya (where you can be sent to prison for being gay and where in some areas there is evidence of LGBT people being executed), Egypt (where homosexuality is illegal under their 'morality' laws), Tunisia (where being gay is illegal and they are currently trying to make communications with Israelis illegal (lol)), are probably better off not in the contest - and I imagine that Israel would probably be the least of their worries given the LGBT+ history of the contest.
I probably wouldn't use this argument to support your argument removing Israel - "Remove Israel so countries that criminalise, and in some cases murder, gay people can join!" probably isn't a good look.
Personally, I think as long as they're willing to show the entire contest beginning to end without censoring anything than they should be aloud to join. Exposing LGBT artists and culture to these countries would be a step in the right direction and excluding them for that reason would do nothing for progress. It could obviously get complicated if such a country were to win and host but cross that bridge if and when they come to it.
Besides, homosexuality is on paper legal or at least decriminalised in EBU countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon & Turkey as well.
Sure and those countries don't take part.
These countries, though, which subscribe to the Arab League Boycott means that they literally cannot take part due to their antisemitic laws surrounding content from Israel. Let's say Israel was withdrawn, these countries still could not participate because Tali, the Luxembourg entry, is Israeli and therefore her performance falls under "Israeli Content". If a producer of the contest was Israeli, then they could not show it because the contest would be, in effect, "Israeli content".
Personally, I'd take Israel over any of them any day Although this does then lead us on to the Azerbaijan/Armenia situation, in which the EBU's response was subpar.......!
Spaceman was a message to the world and the universe from the uks normal people
Hope the next one continues the job x
Off to Google
Fkn Google has replaced schools and unis lol shouldnt laugh
On Eurovision anyways
Ok got to Google before my editing window elapsed here
Oh no
What the hell
Do they engineer a zero vote or something ????
Love olly but this is bad
Comments
It's an interesting point that Russia were perhaps removed because other countries would have refused to participate, but I think people forget that there are actually a dozen or so EBU members and Eurovision eligible countries that have refused to take part for decades due to Israel's participation.
No different to Croatia last year. Ukraine 2016, Armenia 2015,.. many songs of the past. I don’t see an issue with Israel’s song. The political message was more about October 7th and the horrible events that happened to Israel as opposed to what has happened since.
And again, KANs supposed horrid reporting is no different to many other countries reporting of their political enemies.
No both semis and the final.
So technically, none competing countries and countries not even in the EBU get to vote more often!
I don’t live in Europe, so if I wanted to (I don’t vote) I could vote in both semis and the final too!
Wiwi are the media partners of LEP. As such, you’re not meant to publicly throw an act you’ve helped to book for said event, under the bus on live TV. It’s unprofessional.
It’s been a month since “There’ll be another big change for Malmö 2024 announced soon….but some things are staying the same.”
I really don't think his comments are too bad - and to be honest, what he says is 100% truthful. This is the 2nd event in a row where the BBC have tried to stop the footage being released officially. At the end of the day, if you aren't confident in your artist's live performances, then don't let them participate in these pre-show events (or, even better, don't select them to begin with). And to be honest, sometimes people don't perform well and you just have to own it - there are MUCH worse pre-party performances out there. I mean Elhaida Dani literally missed the big note in I'm Alive (SO UNDERRATED, BY THE WAY) and still allowed it to be published. And this year, Mustii's London performance is pretty dire. Again, allows it to be published.
Ah, you mean countries that follow the Arab League Boycott? I don't know why, but I get the feeling that the Eurovision eligible countries you speak about, Algeria (where same-sex activity is illegal), Jordan, Libya (where you can be sent to prison for being gay and where in some areas there is evidence of LGBT people being executed), Egypt (where homosexuality is illegal under their 'morality' laws), Tunisia (where being gay is illegal and they are currently trying to make communications with Israelis illegal (lol)), are probably better off not in the contest - and I imagine that Israel would probably be the least of their worries given the LGBT+ history of the contest.
I probably wouldn't use this argument to support your argument removing Israel - "Remove Israel so countries that criminalise, and in some cases murder, gay people can join!" probably isn't a good look.
https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2460499/the-ds-eurovision-jury-2024-10th-anniversary-edition/p1
I don't think that the BBC blocked any of Mae's pre-party performances last year from being released though? So it's not like they just block any performance that isn't up to scratch.
Sure, but I also don't believe it's purely down to his mental health - in that case pull him from the parties citing "illness". Previously announced acts have missed events before due to illness. Letting him perform and then telling sites afterwards? And to be honest, I can understand why this would annoy Wiwibloggs - they're media partners for the event and help sign acts up, sure. So they dedicate their time for the pay off of the performances being recorded, etc?
Like I said, I'm usually the first to criticise Wiwibloggs (genuinely cannot stand them!) but I genuinely don't think that what was said is that bad at all, really.
We will most likely never know for certain what the actual reason was, personally I'm not inclined to delve too deeply into speculation, especially as there has been plenty of that already. I just hope that he is OK and is being looked after at this time.
I feel a bit out of the loop here, what's happened? I know Olly performed at one of the pre parties and apparently came across a bit subdued. I know he's getting some flack from people demanding he withdraw also.
I can only go by what has been reported on here and from the scraps that I've read elsewhere - the official video of Olly's LEP performance on Wiwibloggs You tube channel was not released, but there have been some fan videos which show him giving a subdued and disengaged performance of 'Dizzy' and he was apparently the same when performing his other song ('King', I think).
A lot of people have speculated that because of protesters at the venue putting pressure on him to withdraw, as well as the event being delayed by 90 minutes because of 'technical issues' (he didn't take to the stage until the early hours of the morning) that this had a detrimental effect on his mental health which affected his performance. His openness about his previous mental health difficulties has also been taken into account.
William from WiwiBloggs has appeared in a video where I think he was criticising the delegation for asking for the footage not to be released, implying that it was just a bad performance that they were embarassed by. I haven't seen the video in full so I could be mistaken on that point though.
If I've got any of those details wrong then I apologise, but that's the situation as I understand it.
Thanks. Much as I think Israel should have no place in Eurovision this year I totally disagree with people trying to put pressure on individual artists. Someone else made the point on here earlier, but it's bizarrely the ones who've actually spoken out about the situation who are being out under the most pressure. It's also apparent from social media that a lot of those declaring they're going to boycott are the exact same people who'd never actually watch anyway.
Bib - that's not really surprising though - by publicly expressing an opinion on the situation they opened themselves up to public discourse on the matter in whatever shape or form it comes in. Of course it was gonna lead to more pressure being put on them to take more impactfull action, it was naive of them if they did not realise it at the time they issued the statement.
Its a bit of a mess that has sadly blown up in their faces.
I don’t know — it’s highly possible this was a request from Olly himself, and if he’s in (or was in) a bad place mentally it’s not that easy to have the foresight needed to predict reactions etc.
I can understand the desire to try and suppress a bad performance to protect an individual from further trolling or negative attention, although as you say, realistically it doesn’t really work that way.
But there was nothing wrong with his Madrid performance, and yet that too has been vetoed.
I really don’t think they do.
I think the rapid evolution of social media and social interactions is causing many mistakes. Things that used to be easily brushed off are no longer so.
Some people in charge, thinking that by not putting the videos out there, means there is no video to comment on, hate on, or abuse, are very naive.
It’s like Kate’s team thought that putting the photoshopped picture of her and the kids would shut everyone up, forgetting how deeply people delve into social media!
I sometimes feel like we're living in a 'Black Mirror' episode
Personally, I think as long as they're willing to show the entire contest beginning to end without censoring anything than they should be aloud to join. Exposing LGBT artists and culture to these countries would be a step in the right direction and excluding them for that reason would do nothing for progress. It could obviously get complicated if such a country were to win and host but cross that bridge if and when they come to it.
Besides, homosexuality is on paper legal or at least decriminalised in EBU countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon & Turkey as well.
Sure and those countries don't take part.
These countries, though, which subscribe to the Arab League Boycott means that they literally cannot take part due to their antisemitic laws surrounding content from Israel. Let's say Israel was withdrawn, these countries still could not participate because Tali, the Luxembourg entry, is Israeli and therefore her performance falls under "Israeli Content". If a producer of the contest was Israeli, then they could not show it because the contest would be, in effect, "Israeli content".
Personally, I'd take Israel over any of them any day
But the new “Spa mix” they’ve released today on YouTube is one of the weirdest things I’ve ever seen!
https://www.facebook.com/reel/403355609134426
Hope the next one continues the job x
Off to Google
Fkn Google has replaced schools and unis lol shouldnt laugh
On Eurovision anyways
Ok got to Google before my editing window elapsed here
Oh no
What the hell
Do they engineer a zero vote or something ????
Love olly but this is bad